1. Excellent discussion guys. Like you, I applaud DC for trying something different, rather than just cookie-cutter copying Marvel. I wanted a take on superman that took him seriously. There’s been enough cheese over the decades. I want to see the implications of an alien living on earth. I’m so glad these movies are delivering that.

    You guys really need to check out Peater from Christian Geek Central’s review.
    Spoiler-free bit

    and full spoiler discussion

    I’ve also recorded my own humble thoughts at http://www.adamdavidcollings.com/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/ although I think Peater says it better than I could.

    • Austin and I actually viewed Paeter Frandsen’s video before we went and saw the film. The video really helped to reset my expectations far more positively, because Paeter is a much bigger DCU fan than either of us and also enjoyed Man of Steel.

  2. Oh and this:

    “Instead I had to take on that premise: I said I didn’t care to see these two heroic story-worlds duke it out. I want them to be reluctant partners in super-storytelling. I reject a forced competition.”

    Yes! Yes! Yes!
    It’s like the silly Star Trek vs Star Wars debates. Can’t we enjoy BOTH for different reasons?

  3. dmdutcher says:

    Huh…hmm, well I think the biggest issue with 1 probably would be that Zach’s style is often hilariously grimdark, and if the material isn’t up to it, it tends to fail hard. It’s similar to how Tim Burton did Batman, except Tim tends to be a better fit to the source material. Oh, also from what I hear they royally screwed up Batman as a character by making him use guns and brand criminals.

    2…eh I don’t think that’s the case either. I do think though that they are much better at animation, and some of it is amazing. I just watched Batman: Assault on Arkham, and was shocked at how great it was, and Justice League: Gods and Monsters was great too.

    I think DC’s live action problem is that they try to get great directors (or hot ones) who tend to run rough over the source material. The animated team is often better because they are more respectful even when they take liberties.

    3. PG-13 kind of sucks as a rating. It usually just means intense violence but no nudity. I don’t think it helps much. You tend to notice it after a while, where they cheat the rating by having just enough brutal violence then cut away. Sometimes PG is just more organic, sometimes R is better.

    4.Supes is a hard character to write period. He’s close to Captain America that way, ad he works better as an idea than a human. I can’t really blame people who fall short of him, although they really need to stop making him into space Jesus.

    5. Oh its comics, they don’t need a good reason. We always want to see good guys fight and then team up.

    • Welcome back, D.M.!

      If I have previously read you correctly, you have particularly strong views against G-rated universes a la stereotypical evangelical restrictions. I think for that reason you would appreciate Batman v Superman and I would encourage you to see it. If you saw the film, you might also recognize different story (and battle) contexts that put different spins on statements like, “Batman uses guns.”

      I believe Austin has Bat-grappled the label of “grimdark” and shown that it does not apply to this film. Superman and Batman both emerge as champions of true heroism. It does not “darken” them permanently to show how they fight to earn these heroic mantles among the shadows and slanders of a semi-realistic dark world.

      • dmdutcher says:

        Oh I plan on it, just not able to right away.

        The PG-13 is weird thing might be explained better by X-Men: Days of Future Past. It actually has some stunning levels of violence, but the PG-13 rating shows how they game it. All the graphic violence is done on cgi characters-sunspot gets his arm chopped off and choked to death, Colossus gets his head crushed and torn apart, iceman’s head removed in ice form. The violence done on human characters is bloodless, like when the teleporter gets stabbed, or happens offscreen, like when Warpath died twice.

        That rating, as well as Zac’s particular style might be why It seems so grimdark but really isn’t. Sort of agreeing with that point. It might be like Hellboy where style is strong but subject matter really isn’t bad at all.

What do you think?