1. Galadriel says:

    The DoS trailer looked really cool, though I am still concerned about Tauriel.
    I think The Silver Chair would make a great film–the BBC version is good for its day, especially with Tom Baker as Puddleglum. Yeah, “allegorical” is a bit unsettling term.

  2. I’m finally getting slightly excited about Desolation. The first trailor was mostly just an overlong mishmash of CGI landscapes. At least this trailor has a sense of story to it.

    It’s unclear to me why you find Gordon’s use of the word “allegorical” unsettling. If The Chronicles of Narnia isn’t allegory, then what is?

    • annehamilton says:

      I love fantasy and loathe allegory. The difference? The plot of allegory is always subservient to the moral, even to the point of gaping holes of logic – whereas good fantasy conforms to the canon of ‘willing suspension of disbelief’, thus doesn’t have gaping plotholes or inexplicable irrational behaviour on the part of the characters. That, in my experience, is the prime difference when it comes to the page.

      • What you’re referring to is bad allegory. Allegory itself is not, as I recall, generally defined as “a story containing gaping plot-holes, irrational character behavior, and a plot that’s subservient to the intended message.” The New Oxford American Dictionary defines “allegory” to mean “a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.” That’s a pretty broad definition, and one which comfortably — and unquestionably, in the case of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe — fits The Chronicles of Narnia.

        Yes, allegory typically lends itself to those problems you’ve pointed out. But that doesn’t mean its a useless or artless literary form. Lewis is generally acknowledged to have composed some of the best allegorical works in Christian literature. The shortcomings of his subsequent imitators shouldn’t impel us to strike an entire technique from our list of acceptable practices, or shudder when people refer to its use in his works.

        • annehamilton says:

          You’re absolutely right that it’s bad allegory, though I struggle to think of any allegory that it doesn’t fit. Is it the hiddenness of the meaning that defines allegory? I struggle with that, too. On the one hand I can think of heaps of poems that I would never consider allegorical but have hidden meanings. On the other hand, classic allegory like Pilgrim’s Progress hardly hides its moral when names are as transparent as ‘Slough of Despond’.

          • I think your struggle might be due to an all-or-nothing definition of allegory. It comes in different degrees. A story doesn’t have to be a direct allegory — the most extreme form, in which practically everything has a real-world analog — to be merely allegorical. Yes, Pilgrim’s Progress is the most famous example of a direct allegory, but a narrative doesn’t require neat labeling to count as one. Ted Dekker’s Showdown and Circle Trilogy — his best works before that lamentable slide into weird, creepy mediocrity — are stellar, even moving examples. Frank Peretti’s The Oath is another. These aren’t the kind of cynical, shoddy “message novels” you so rightly loathe. They’re thrilling, imaginative, and thematically deep. They’re allegory pushed toward its full potential.

    • Supposal.

      Of course the Chronicles include allegorical elements, just as Tolkien’s Middle-earth novels and legendarium includes linguistics. But I would say Narnia isn’t “allegory” just as a Tolkien novel is not “a linguistics study.”

      • I think we’re using different definitions of the word. You’re probably referring to a strict interpretation of direct allegory (in which every fictional element must represent something in the real world), while I’m employing a broader interpretation of “allegory” to include both its direct and indirect forms (i.e. while Aslan is a type of Christ, Puddleglum doesn’t necessarily “represent” anything or anyone specific). Until I see evidence to the contrary, I’m willing to believe Mark Gordon intended the word in that latter sense.

        • Fair enough. As you might guess, I’m more sensitive to the confusion of categories, as you mentioned. People think fiction only counts for something if every character and/or element “stands for” something overtly spiritual.

  3. After Dawn Treader, I was hoping they’d just stop. The Silver Chair is kind of freaky and surreal anyway–the BBC version did a fantastic job with it–and I shudder to think what garbage they’ll do to it in Hollywood. I wish they’d just do the Horse and his Boy and leave it at that. It’d be very Arabian Nights.

    I’m enjoying the Hobbit movies, and I can’t wait to see Smaug Cumberbatch. That’s one book I don’t mind getting the Epic Movie treatment. At least Peter Jackson sticks to the plot, even if he does jazz it up quite a bit. And really, there’s a lot of leeway in “they walked for days through Mirkwood and it was dark and creepy and then they ran out of food”.

  4. notleia says:

    I was burned by the Dawn Treader movie pretty hard, and I’m not sure that I’d pay money to see Silver Chair. The changes to the Prince Caspian movie made some sense, but what happened to Dawn Treader was unbelievable. It’s the second or third most popular book: they pretty much had it served up to them on a platter, and the best they could do was to completely screw it over. I prefer to pretend that it doesn’t exist, like that fifth Star Trek movie that also doesn’t exist in my head.
    And I haven’t seen Tom Baker as Puddleglum yet, which is a sad spot in my nerd-shaped heart.

  5. I haven’t seen the Dawn Treader yet and I’m not sure I really want to. I understood why they made the changes to Prince Caspian–the liberation of Narnia part is pretty trippy in the book, with people getting turned into animals and trees and stuff–but Dawn Treader you’d think would have been easy! The BBC one is really good. Cheesy effects aside, of course, but at least they stuck to the story.

    I had no idea Tom Baker was Puddleglum. I’m going to have to watch the BBC Silver Chair again. 🙂 🙂

  6. dmdutcher says:

    I always thought they did a decent job with Treader. That book out of all of them is probably the hardest to film because the structure is so episodic and pre-modern. You’d have to make a miniseries to do it justice. I thought Caspian was worse because they pointlessly junked most of the book in exchange for something worse. Walden has a very bad habit of this, and that’s why films like the Golden Compass and The Seeker bombed.

    The Silver Chair is going to be tough. I think it’s one of the best Narnia books, but it relies so much on a certain mood that could easily be destroyed if adapted poorly.

    No comment on the Hobbit.

  7. Finally last night I watched the trailer with m’lady.

    PROS: Bilbo’s opening lines, direct from the book; fantastic visuals, and of course, narration direct from Cumber-Smaug the Terrible.

    CONS: Tauriel. Sorry, folks. And this could be another “OMG Galadriel flirts with Gandalf in the trailer”-style moment. (Relax, people, she’s married, and this is just one Middle-earth ancient showing friendly affection for another.) But it sounds like a forced Wuv Story, whose only benefit is that it involves a manufactured female lead. Still, this is the same movie-Legolas, and the ending is predictable.

    SPOILER, if I even need to say it:

    In the Battle of Five Armies, Tauriel has a heroinic tragic death.

    • I think it’s great that Legolas has been given a substantial role in the film and, yes, even a love interest. His inclusion was always inevitable, what with his being the son of Thranduil and all, and I’d much rather that Peter Jackson make use of preexisting character resources instead of teleporting people halfway across Middle-earth on a whim like he did with Elrond and the Elves of Lothlorien in Rings and with Radagast in Unexpected Journey. What I don’t appreciate about Legolas’ romance is that it appears to be a regurgitation of PJ’s ill-conceived Elrond/Arwen/Aragorn love triangle. I mean, seriously. If I have to watch another overprotective, manipulative, meddlesome Elf-lord lecture his offspring over their duty to the family name, I may puke.

  8. Kirsty says:

    Didn’t CS Lewis categorically state that Narnia was not allegory, and that he disliked allegory?
    I think he called it ‘suppositional’.

    • Yes, but as even the comprehensive and supportive-of-your-position article I’ve linked below points out, “supposal” is a term Lewis “invented himself to suit his purposes.” It doesn’t exist in the dictionary. For all intents and purposes, Narnia conforms to a modern definition of “allegory.” Many — sometimes the majority — of its characters, objects, and situations are clearly intended to be understood as Biblical analogs. I’m aware that Lewis wasn’t overly fond of the term, but it seems that had more to do with its associations than its actual meaning.

      http://thinklings.org/posts/why-narnia-is-not-allegory

What do you think?