1. Kessie says:

    I agree with your points here, Stephan. But how does this apply to fiction, if at all?

    • At least one quote above demonstrates the kind of only-anti-based rhetoric, specific to Christian fiction, to which I refer. Yet others can be found, scattered about the Christian spec-fic blogosphere, some intentionally basing arguments for better fiction only on antis, and others that merely give this appearance. (Sometimes I wonder where my own views on the subjects give the appearance of the anti-only evils!)

      My hope was not to name any names, or authors, or publishers. That would not only defeat my whole point, but could be un-Christlike at the same time. Instead I hope to discuss the issue in more general terms. Some conflict is necessary, sure. But it is temporary. All conflict will die with our Old Earth. By contrast, joy and worship of God — which includes our fiction offerings both now and very likely also in the future, physical New Earth! — is everlasting.

      • Kessie says:

        Well, I got a little confused as to your point there, because your topic works on both a reality level and a fictional reality. For instance,
         
        1. We’ll be nearly unbearable jerks.
        2. We’ll automatically act as though our chief end is to avoid Bad Things forever.
        4. Worship and rest will make no sense.
         
        Those all apply to a fictional story universe, as well. A story with all conflict and no reason for it winds up with 1, jerky characters, 4, no point toward which the conflict is working, and 2, using God to pull all the punches. (I’ve seen that done before … it doesn’t often work.)
         
        Also you wind up with the nonsensical battles in the Tough Guide to Fantasyland, and in its accompanying novel, the Dark Lord of Derkholm. Conflict for conflict’s sake is hard on a fantasy world. 🙂

  2. Fred Warren says:

    This is a difficult issue for a writer, because conflict is an essential element of fiction, and it’s hard not to frame everything in terms of the conflict that will make it interesting. Without conflict, we’re left with a narrative of life in which nothing much happens. John gets up, goes to work, comes home, and goes to bed. Rinse and repeat, because there’s nothing to stand in his way or cause him trouble. It’s a pleasant, peaceful life, and I can provide as much descriptive detail as I care to include, but nobody will want to read the story.

    In our experience, the end of hostilities marks the end of the tale. Frodo sails off into the West with the elves, and we usher in the Age of Man with taller hobbits and plenty of farming on the horizon. Huzzah. A few minutes later, we’re scanning the TV Guide for the next episode of Game of Thrones.

    Eternal life in the New Earth can’t be boring, by definition, because it’s the fulfillment of everything we’re meant to be as children of God, but I think stories will have to change as much as we do, and I confess I have difficulty imagining what that might mean.

  3. This is a difficult issue for a writer, because conflict is an essential element of fiction, and it’s hard not to frame everything in terms of the conflict that will make it interesting.

    That’s a subset of the issue I hadn’t though of. In this, I’m more thinking about how we search out Christian speculative stories, or market them, ourselves — the whole book as a product, and not necessarily how its actual story goes.

    Eternal life in the New Earth can’t be boring, by definition, because it’s the fulfillment of everything we’re meant to be as children of God

    Completely agree. Thus the “theoretically” above. Theoretically, what if someone who bases his life (or fiction recommendations) on an anti ended up in New Earth, or the present Heaven, with no more fights to fight, but instead only worshipful, God-honoring, eternally fascinating challenges?

    , but I think stories will have to change as much as we do, and I confess I have difficulty imagining what that might mean.

    My theory is that we will  be able to have many of the same kinds of stories, with conflict at all. It’s based on the principle of continuity between this Old Earth and the New one. We’ll still remember sin, its horrors, and thus feel even more gratitude toward the After-world’s King. Thus I suppose that we’ll  be able to “set” new stories on the Old Earth, with all the conflict and rules and those structures. Of course, they’ll all be historical fiction!

  4. Fred Warren says:

    Stephen: Of course, they’ll all be historical fiction!

    Sigh. <Heads for the library to brush up on his Michener and Clavell> 🙂

  5. Galadriel says:

    A very good reminder of the reality that is so easy to forget

  6. Adam says:

    Let it not be forgotten, however, that many Christians have gone to their graves standing for the truth and knowing the battle was one they would not win. At least, not in this lifetime. They took a stand and chose the hill they would die on. They said, “that is wrong,” and were slain for it. So while we must always be for something, sometimes the only reason we need to fight is for an anti. You may not kill six million Jews, Hitler. John the Baptist said, Herod, you cannot have your brother’s wife, and he got an impromptu neck fitting with a blunt ax. In a story, sometimes the greatest, most moving tale can be the one where the good guys are forced to walk into certain death with no hope of coming out alive. Sometimes all you can do is keep fighting.

    So I think there is a place for that sort of story in the Christian life. It reflects that – this side of life – we do not know all ends. St. Augustine said that the difference between God and man is a matter of perspective; the Christian life is like wandering through a deep valley with great bends and turns in the road that obscure our ability to see around the next turn. God, however, is like a man standing at the top of a great tower overlooking the whole valley and can see why the bends and twists are there.

    Great reminders, Stephen, and ten points to Griffyndor for using Megamind and for putting “We’ll be nearly unbearable jerks” as the first point. Speaking as a former completely unbearable jerk, it’s so important to be aware of this.

  7. I kept meaning to get back to your comment, Adam. By the way, due to a certain “unholy” day this Monday, I’ve postponed this column’s sequel in favor of another.

    Let it not be forgotten, however, that many Christians have gone to their graves standing for the truth and knowing the battle was one they would not win. At least, not in this lifetime.

    Exactly — and yet they knew it would be won, in the future, and didn’t spend their whole lives fighting the same fight or feeling bored or directionless if they couldn’t fight.

    Most Christians who find themselves in the worst conflicts, at least from what I’ve read, have the most Biblical views about them. They don’t mistake the means for the ends. They will fight and suffer and even die, because the cause is right, and because the battle has been thrust upon them — they were not discernment “chicken hawks.”

    In a story, sometimes the greatest, most moving tale can be the one where the good guys are forced to walk into certain death with no hope of coming out alive. Sometimes all you can do is keep fighting.

    And I would fight for those kinds of stories, though not because I can’t stand any story that’s not like that, but because this is among the best kind of story, and we need more.

     

    Great reminders, Stephen, and ten points to Griffyndor for using Megamind and for putting “We’ll be nearly unbearable jerks” as the first point. Speaking as a former completely unbearable jerk, it’s so important to be aware of this.

    I myself have now achieved the rank of only partly unbearable. Hoping to earn enough points to level up, though of course I shouldn’t be the one “earning” them (Phil. 2: 12-13). However, I’d appreciate the compliment more if you actually said it in the voice of Prof. Snape, though of course a) I can perform this impression on my own if necessary (and it is), b) Snape certainly would not say “ten points to Gryffindor.”

    Finally, for this comment, Fred Warren offered here a succinct summary of this topic, specifically as it applies to those who yearn and fight for better Christian fiction:

    Sometimes the expectations we’re fighting are our own. We can get so wired into the deficiencies we see in Christian or other fiction that we start writing in a way we think is diametrically opposed to the problems we perceive. We stop writing stories and begin writing agendas.

What do you think?