1. notleia says:

    Honestly, I think it’s time to let up on beating this horse. I doubt Steve’s going to write an essay describing his entire philosophy of literature and the marketing thereof to our satisfaction, and even if he did, I’m still going to think was…the politest word is “unfortunate,” that he dropped AViS.

    • Perhaps, “Show, not tell” applies equally to publishers as it does authors.

    • I think it’s true that everyone can stop making a big deal out of this. Sure, things change, but that is a fact of life. 
      For me, it’s helped refocus the kind of books I will accept at Splashdown – I need to be as specific as possible because people want to know. It hasn’t changed my vision for my own writing, but it has confirmed to me that I’m headed the right direction with it.
      It’s all about our own response to change, isn’t it? I for one look forward to reading more of Jeff’s own novels and seeing him continue to teach at conferences.

  2. C. S. Lakin says:

    Steve, congrats on this move and I hope and pray you will find great joy and satisfaction in this creative venture! I do have one question for you, and maybe others wonder as well. Will you consider acquiring novels that have already been self-published by the author as an ebook? Or will you only look at unpublished books?
    Thanks!

  3. Becky Minor says:

    I’m just looking forward to seeing what 4-8 titles Steve readies for the marketplace over his first year. That, I think, will be the most telling evidence of what direction he is taking with the press. Given what I’ve read of his represented authors, he knows how to pick quality storytellers.
    As for Hinterlands content and AViS–they will find the right homes. No use staying in a place where the person getting your work to market admits he would not be the best advocate for the story. I admire a person who is willing to admit their limitations.

  4. Michelle says:

    I really do want MLP to succeed.  I’d love to have someplace I can send the people who want Christian fantasy and sci-fi. 

    Personally, I’m not reading any more Christian fiction of any kind.  I am burnt out, even on Speculative Fiction of the Christian variety.  I have three left to read for The Christian Manifesto and then I’m switching to the secular market and don’t see myself coming back. I will possibly make an exception for Kerry Nietz and Jeffe Gerke’s offerings but other than that I am done. Over done as a reader of Christian fiction.

  5. Kerry Nietz says:

    Thank you, Michelle. I’m honored to be considered one of your exceptions. Means a lot.

  6. Alex Mellen says:

    It’s probably also good to remember that this is taking a load off Jeff Gerke’s back. Having someone with fresh passion and energy leading MLP forward will be great I’m sure. I’m glad AViS took off before being released from MLP; it should continue to do well (and I need to find myself a copy!).

  7. Tim Frankovich says:

    The question that has been asked regarding AViS, repeatedly, is “Why?” The best answer we’re getting now? “I’m not telling you why, except to say there’s no ‘message.'” Um… then there IS a message. Ugh. 
    All I was asking for was an explanation. I might have disagreed with the explanation, but at least then I would understand that there WAS an explanation. Instead, every answer is “I’m not giving you an explanation.” 
    Simple example: “I decided not to keep AViS around because I want us to be taken seriously and I feel that title, in and of itself, invites too much mockery.” I would have politely disagreed with that concept to some extent, but I could understand why someone felt that way. Then we could move on and I could trust the new owner, because he gave me a straight answer. 
    I’m sorry. It’s just too ridiculous. I’ve lost faith, for now. Maybe in a year or two, if MLP puts out some great titles, I’ll change my tune, but with this kind of equivocation, I have little desire to support it any more.

    • Tim, I think this is an unfortunate position. Anything Steve would say about why this wasn’t a book he would publish is either going to taint the book itself and the author or taint Marcher Lord Press–depending on whether people agreed or disagreed with the reasoning.

      I’ll tell you, I wouldn’t have published the book either, though I haven’t read it. The idea of a group of pacifists being vampires is anathema to me, and it seems disrespectful and exploitative. The book may not be any of those, but the CONCEPT triggers those thoughts in me. So, I’m not a publisher, but I am a reader. For the same reasons, I have no interest in reading that book, though I know Kerry to be a good writer based on other works of his I have read.

      I have no way of knowing if Steve’s thinking is along the same lines as mine. He has his reason and by not stating specifics, I think he’s protecting both Kerry and MLP from needless controversy.

      Becky

      • Kerry Nietz says:

        Hmm…so it was okay with you that I examine Islamic culture, but not Amish culture? Interesting perspective. 🙂

        • Kerry, not sure what you’re referring to here. Do you have an Islamic Vampires in Space book I don’t know about? 😉

          Full disclosure, which I think I’ve given elsewhere, too: I am of Amish heritage. I know what is most important to the Amish, and probably the key component to their theology is their pacifistic stand. To see a woman wearing a head covering with blood dripping from her fangs is offensive to me. The concept is offensive to me. But that’s me. That’s not Steve or anybody else. I was using my own proclivities to illustrate why it was wise for Steve not to share his rationale with the public.

          I think I made my point. It’s controversial to say, This is why I don’t like that book. I’m sorry you’ve had to bear the brunt of this, Kerry.

          Becky

          • Kerry Nietz says:

            So, what works of mine have you read then? Just curious…

            I can respect your beliefs and heritage, Rebecca, as I do you as a person.  In fact, I feel I respected them in the book, as well. (I went to some lengths to do that. I wanted to be authentic! The story only works if I’m authentic.)

            That said, my respect doesn’t mean I necessarily have to agree with said beliefs. Novels are about the examination of beliefs and ideas. They need to be about something. Especially science fiction.

            <shrug> I don’t write “friendly unicorns in the forest” type stories. 🙂 It just isn’t in me. The conflict of a pacifist society and vampires was interesting to me. If that doesn’t interest you, that’s fine. No problem.
            Still, what I think you’re telling me is that you’ve judged the book by the cover. So, if the cover and/or title was something different, would you be okay with it?

            Also, realize that part of the goal of any author is to be read. Otherwise we might as well be singing to the wind. I wrote the story I wanted to write. My conscience is clear. So I hope people will read it.

            Another part of the goal of Christian fiction is, obviously, to spread the Gospel and biblical truth. If I have to jump over (or help milk?) a few sacred cows to do that, I will.
            Nuff said. 😉

            • I readFreeheads, so I’m guessing that’s what you were referring to re the Islamic exploration. Since I didn’t read the first two of the series, I forgot the connection with Islam (I know–critical part, but for me the story started on board ship, moved to the moon, and then on earth was initially about tech/antitex stuff.)

              Thanks for your kind words, Kerry.

              I’ll reiterate that I did not read AVIS, so my remarks about it have nothing whatsoever to do with the story. They refer to the concept, and yes, the cover and title conveyed that to me, along with the references to writer-conference jokes, which I’ve heard first hand.

              If it had a different cover, title, would I have read it? Probably not. I’m still influenced by my pacifist parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, though I personally don’t identify as a pacifist, and by my own personal experiences. Consequently, I’m not inclined to read vampire stories, whether on earth or in space, whether in conflict with Amish or with anyone else. But I suspect I wouldn’t have found the concept “offensive” if it had been packaged differently.

              And I’ll climb right up beside you, Kerry, to declared that you should write the story you want to write. I do hope the book finds its audience. As I said elsewhere, every report I’ve read about it is favorable.

              I love the fact that you want to use your storytelling to “spread the Gospel and biblical truth.” May your tribe increase!

              Becky

      • Everyone already knows that Steve Laube finds AViS problematic.  He made that abundantly clear when he jettisoned it from MLP’s lineup.  And, as he’s since praised the novel’s stylistic quality, it’s likewise obvious that his objections to its publication reside somewhere in the realm of content and/or perceived content.  I fail to see how a little specificity from Mr. Laube about his motives for distancing MLP from AViS could possibly “taint” a novel with such a powerful and preexisting polarization quotient.  What’s far more likely is that any such specificity would, as you suggest, end up tainting MLP itself.

        So here’s my question: why is honesty and transparency a bad thing?  Why should I as a reader be concerned with whether MLP succeeds as a business if that success rides on the obfuscation of its publishing philosophy?  The discontinuation of AViS and the Hinterlands imprint constitutes clear and convincing evidence that Steve Laube will do business very differently than Jeff Gerke.  And if Mr. Laube feels so strongly that MLP’s publication of AViS was a regrettable decision, shouldn’t he be willing — nay, happy and proud! — to articulate his reasoning thereto pertaining, if only for the sake of those established or aspiring authors now unsure whether it’s still worth their time to submit manuscripts to MLP under its “unchanged” publication requirements?  After all, the reasoning by which AViS was canned is now firmly in effect for all of MLP going forward.  But all signs seem to indicate that Mr. Laube knows that his reasoning, were it to be made public, would alienate a significant portion of MLP’s readership.  I hope I’m wrong.

        • dmdutcher says:

          This is the “reading into things” Steve mentioned. Don’t assume that he owes us a complete breakdown of his publishing philosophy. Usually given enough books we can see it anyways. Unwillingness to give up minute by minute updates on his decisions isn’t anything nefarious.

          • I’m not claiming that we’re owed either a complete breakdown or a minute-by-minute update.  What I’m doing is recognizing the fact that, thus far, Steve Laube has twice given evasive non-answers (“ultimately it would not have been a book I would have published had I been the publisher” and “that title is not one I would have chosen to publish if I had been the owner of MLP at the time“) to very direct questions about his handling of AViS.  I’m not saying that Mr. Laube should’ve spilled his guts on the matter from the get-go; I’m saying that if he, when pressed multiple times, adamantly refuses to shed light on this particular reader concern, there’s gotta be a reason.

            I don’t even have a stake in this kerfuffle.  I’m just pointing out the obvious.

            • dmdutcher says:

              What you see as evasive others may see as diplomatic and unwilling to get into criticizing heavily the work of an author he still retains. What I learned from my forum days as an MMO player is that the devs do not owe you anything when it comes to their business practices. They have different concerns from the players as well as different limitations and capacities to do what they want for the health of their product. Books aren’t that different.
               
              At some point, you either accept what they say, or move to another game. You don’t demand them to justify themselves to your satisfaction. I don’t particularly like AViS being dropped, but he did it, and he gave a reason why. I accept that reason-he didn’t think it was a good fit for his future plans. I don’t need him to tell me his plans to accept it.
               
              If his plans are bad, well we’ll see it later. But I don’t think the kind of “I can’t trust him because he wont say what I want to hear him say” is helpful right now. 

    • Steve Rzasa says:

      I find it troubling, Tim, that you would punish the other Marcher Lord Press authors by avoiding our works altogether because you don’t like the decisions made about one book. Steve Laube has given his answer, and I agree with Rebecca, he was probably avoiding any further controversy or conflict or whatever you want to call it. And frankly, he doesn’t have to say anything about why he chose not to publish it.

      Now, I don’t agree with Rebecca’s statement about not publishing AViS. This same thread about it being exploitative is worrying about a lot of nothing. The way it was written is entirely respectful of the Amish people, so far as I know, and the story does not carry the slightest hint of parody on its pages with the exception of the cover.

      I heartily recommend to everyone should stop freaking out about this change at MLP.  

      • Steve, just to follow up–from my comment to Kerry it might be clear that my understanding of the story concept of Amish Vampires In Space came from the cover. I haven’t read the book, but all the reports I’ve read from those who have seem in agreement that the book is well written and not at all what it appears to be.

        Becky

  8. J. S. Bailey says:

    My question is this: Will MLP still be open to Christian horror? It seems like the emphasis in these interviews is only on science fiction and fantasy, but horror lies under the umbrella of speculative fiction as well.

    • HG Ferguson says:

      I highly doubt it.  “That,” as I like to call it, is still by and large an unacceptable genre in the Christian writing community unless it’s about serial killers, demons/angels, Nephilim, ghosts (which is an unbiblical notion in and of itself), ad infinitum et nauseam.  MLP represented and presumably still will  represent only fantasy and science fiction.  Even this website only gives lip service to “that.”  In the entire month of October, the most appropriate time of the year to address “that,” we were treated to only one post re The Walking Dead (and a great one).  I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting.  If a well-written novel about vampires in space preying upon a community of traditional believers whose faith enables them to stand firm against the blood-drinking darkness becomes anathema, I do not expect things to change any time soon.

      • If a well-written novel about vampires in space preying upon a community of traditional believers whose faith enables them to stand firm against the blood-drinking darkness becomes anathema, I do not expect things to change any time soon.

        Hmm. I recommend you read the book.

        Interesting thought about our Halloween “coverage.” I can confirm that, were I not in the midst of a half-continental move, I would have written more about it. But “horror” elements, and particularly Christian responses to them (bad or good) is something we’ve emphasized often at SpecFaith. Here’s hoping future changes to the site will help pull that material to the front, collected all in one place.

      • J. S. Bailey says:

        It’s interesting that you mention that ghosts are an unbiblical concept. I’m not going to disagree, but I have to say this: my second novel is a ghost story written from a Christian standpoint. In no way do I attempt to convince people that ghosts are “real.” I used the ghost as a metaphor for what happens when we refuse to forgive those who have wronged us. Just like Jerry, the ghost, can’t move on from earth into paradise, we can’t move on with our lives if we refuse to forgive others.

        So I suppose my question is this: Would MLP be open to submissions like these in which “unbiblical” concepts are used to illustrate biblical truths? I mean, goodness, dragons and aliens and magic are unbiblical concepts, too, but nobody seems to have issue with them in Christian speculative fiction. So why not ghosts?

        By the way, I just started reading Amish Vampires in Space and I have to say I love it.

        • I mean, goodness, dragons and aliens and magic are unbiblical concepts, too

          Yup.

          The difference, if there is any, is not in the fantasy itself, but in the realism of said fantasy. For example, most Christians are more accepting of an “other-world” fantasy in which magic, dragons, etc., are perfectly fine. But concepts such as aliens in sci-fi, or magic in the real world, or the existence of ghosts, raise hackles because people believe the author is thereby inching closer to deception. Magic doesn’t exist in the real world! Nor do aliens or ghosts! Of those three, ghosts may make us the most nervous because in the real world, more people believe in ghosts or try to contact the dead than those who believe in dragons. (Aliens, though, escape our scrutiny, despite the cultlike religious fervor over them.) So the thing becomes stigmatized.

          For example, an online friend of mine, last I checked, held the view that even Narnia should be frowned upon because C.S. Lewis set part of the story in “our world.” After all, the world of Narnia is clearly connected to ours, so why veer toward potential deception? he asked.

          Of course, contra this I say: every story is in some sense a fantasy. Every story that didn’t actually happen is set in a “fantastic” equivalent to our world. It’s just dressed up to look a little more like our world. Still fake.

          With that in mind, it would seem only the pagan stigma about ghosts — and also the cult base around alien abductions, etc. — could trouble us, if at all.

          • J. S. Bailey says:

            I actually included an author’s note in the back of my novel in which I stated that the novel was about forgiveness, not ghosts (since the lingering dead was essentially an allegory for what happens when we don’t forgive people). Nobody seems to have had a problem with it…yet. I’m sure it’s only a matter of time. 😉

      • HG, from your comments, I assume you haven’t read any of Tom Pawlik‘s books. Try Beckon. But I don’t see why vampires are some sort of proof test for true horror over against demons. I mean, the latter are real and therefore should be more truly horrifying.

        You’re right, though, that we don’t have a champion of horror on our list of regular contributors, though we do address the genre from time to time. That said, we have also made an effort to bring in authors like Mike Duran and Brian Godawa who discussed the subject and Matt Mikalatos who discussed books by one author that fall into the genre.

        In reality, we could talk a lot more about a lot of books. Which is why we want our visitors to contribute their reviews–we simply can’t keep up with all the books that are out there.

        Becky

  9. Ben Wolf says:

    Tim,
     
    Jeff gives his answer and his opinion in why Steve didn’t want AViS in my interview with him: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOo0Ja68fI 
    The answer is somewhere in the middle of the interview, all of which would be good to watch if you’re feeling hurt or betrayed or skeptical.
     
    Ben Wolf
    http://www.splicketymagazine.com

    • R. L. Copple says:

      One concern from your interview (and I know Jeff could be reading Steve wrong and/or we’re missing context), Jeff made it sound like Steve’s goal is to expand the genre into the broader “we like Amish romance” readers. While certainly there will be a cross over segment between the two, by and large getting that audience interested in spec-fic will be difficult. Big houses have tried to do that before with limited success in many cases, though there are exceptions.
       
      If Steve can pull that off, great. But I hope it is not at the expense of playing it too safe at the risk of offending that audience. Too much attempt to shoe-horn spec-fic into that market’s exceptions would end up hurting spec-fic rather than promoting it. A fine line, I’m sure. May God give him wisdom.
       

    • Steve’s goal is to expand the genre into the broader “we like Amish romance” readers.

      I’d say that’s not his primary job. Or Jeff’s. Or Marcher Lord’s. Or other publishers.

      It’s our task, to “sell” this genre better to churches, friends, and culture at large.

      Big houses have tried to do that before with limited success in many cases

      There’s the problem right there, it seems. Genre preference must change at the “grassroots” rather than because of the actions of big-house publishers.

      But would someone suggest that Amish fans couldn’t like sci-fi in a house, couldn’t like it with a mouse, wouldn’t like it here or there, wouldn’t like it anywhere?

      If so, then I would disagree. You’d be surprised.

      Once I was at a writers’ conference, an evangelical writers’ conference chock-full of womminfolk and which smelt of Amish butter and cozy-romance perfume. I struck up a conversation with two older women about our preferred genres, and they both mentioned that though they like romance stories, they also love fantasy. They kind of admitted this in lowered voices, as if to say they only enjoyed it for the articles.

      A question about your average run-of-the-mill Amish/romance fiction fan. Really, think not about imaginary groups but the people you know at church or in culture at large. If we don’t know them, then we aren’t yet qualified for this discussion:

      1. How many of them would have seen, say, Disney’s Frozen in theaters?
      2. How many of them have at least read Narnia or Lord of the Rings?
      3. How many of them have boys crazy for superhero stories or movies?
      4. How many of them have girls who love princess/fairy tale stories?
      5. (Because I can just hear someone beginning to grump …) Or boys who love fairy tales and girls who love superheroes? (Happy now? :-P)

      If so, then you’re talking about a closet fantasy fan who just doesn’t yet know it. Or, even if they can’t stand fantasy, they have children who love it. Booyah. Market.

      We need to purge any stereotypes of fantasy fans being only stereotypical “geeks.”

  10. R. L. Copple says:

    Interesting solution to the contract conflict of interest concern. I’m assuming, then, that the contract template will be publicly available so submitting authors know in advance what rights they will be granting should they be chosen and asked to sign on.
     
    It would appear to address my concern, but also has the downside that the contract is a take-it-or-leave-it deal. How much of a problem that would end up being probably depends on the extent of the rights such a contract would want.

    • Rick, I think Jeff’s model was clear from the outset, so I’m guessing Steve will use the same.  I thought Jeff had made this public in one of our interviews or guest blog posts, but I haven’t found it so don’t want to say what I think it is. On its face, the author will come out far better than with traditional publishing, once expenditures are cleared. But it’s that last part that is the catch. Getting past expenditures means selling a good number of books.

      Becky

  11. At present I’m satisfied with the answer for the conflict of interest concerns. I’m sure that if something else develops, we’ll be the first to hear about it at SpecFaith.

    However, and strangely despite my own personal position, I’m primarily curious to see how the current course at MLP, and any future direction for the company, will affect readers. Shop talk can only go so far. How can a regenerated MLP reach out to more readers, many of whom are still stuck in time-lapsed evangelical echo chambers lamenting the fact that No One Is Writing Decent Christian Sci-Fi and Fantasy?

  12. Timothy Stone says:

    I personally don’t do dark and edgy like Vox Day, though I do want to read AViS. That said, I am worried that this is going to expunge stuff too much and make it too clean. The new publisher praises Kathy Tyers, but I still fear that he is going to do less of that type, and more of the more “safe” books. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m skeptical. I like idealistic over dark and edgy, but that doesn’t mean to have everything be safe either.

    Rebecca, Ma’am, I haven’t read it yet, though I will soon, but Mr. Nietz has a book that seems to evoke imagery (on the cover) of radical Islamist imagery for some of the characters. I think he was asking why those books are fine, but the AViS bad?

  13. Mike Duran says:

    Interesting observation from J.S. Bailey and HG Ferguson above about “Christian horror” and its under-representation in both MLP AND this website. I’m not keeping score like Mr. Ferguson, but if he’s right about the frequency, or total lack of frequency, of reference to / publication of horror, then its pretty clear we’ve found our red-headed stepchild. Apparently, to mainstream Christian readers, Christian spec fic is mainly sci-fi and fantasy. The rest of us spec writers / readers can look elsewhere.

    Memo to Mr. Burnett: Time to find yourself a REGULAR horror columnist.
     

    • J. S. Bailey says:

      I agree that horror should be addressed more. Now to be fair, there’s horror and there’s horror. I prefer the edifying variety such as Frank Peretti’s work and Ted Dekker’s “darker” novels Adam and BoneMan’s Daughters. Characters in a horror novel should learn something as a result of the “horrifying” situations they find themselves in. Horror for the sake of blood and guts is NOT my cup of tea.
      Lately when marketing my books (which are not all horror) I tell people that they’re similar to what you might expect from Dean Koontz, who is a Christian but writes for the secular market. There are many Christians who do not read Christian fiction. Perhaps those of us who write Christian horror might try marketing to those people instead.

  14. David James says:

    I’ve always said horror needed to be represented in Christian fiction. I’m wondering if anyone paid any attention back when I used to blog with the NAF. Probably not as people aren’t into that and were more into the fantasy/sci-fi stuff. I even did some initial marketing amongst the Christian spec-fic writing community to publish some “Christian horror” and got little to no response. People don’t want it. People are “scared” of it. And I still would like to help with this, but I have high doubts anyone would be ready, writer or reader, considering the response I got last time and with how Laube took away from MLP – the “premier” publisher remember – the very stories which gave people like me hope that I could get published or that others could without me doing it. Now it just ain’t going to happen. Not at MLP, that’s for sure. And again, based on previous responses, not with me neither. Prove me wrong and contact me if you have  a completed story. Meantime, I got my own story to finish writing and will probably wind up self publishing it at this point and just wind up pissing at the wind in the end once I do so.

What do you think?