1. Sparksofember says:

    Very well put!

  2. D.M. Dutcher says:

    I don’t think this works as a general argument, mostly because it would mean that those who are really well versed in the good would be equally wise about evil. I generally don’t find that to be the case, to the point where the most good tend to be the most naive about it. I mean, they can know not to do it, but you can get a lot of caricatures about it.

    Like in Christian fiction, one of the worst things they can write about is atheism, because unless you’ve fallen away and entertained the idea (or have incredible empathy) you won’t get it. You can’t really learn from the light what the absence of it feels like, even if its really the best thing not to ever leave that light at all. The Christian artist has to understand that atheism, but render it for people in the light so they can understand without embracing it.

    Lot of them don’t, though.

    Christian horror in specific is tough, though. I think it’s more the genre allows you to deal with evil in ways that give you a lot of freedom to render it. Horror is a lot easier to be figurative and allegorical, as well as have direct supernatural action; fantasy is that way too, but tends to be one step removed from the subject.

    • Brent King says:

      I think you hit on something here. To my understanding, one of the most powerful shields against evil ever rising up again (in addition to the wounds in Jesus’ body) is the witness of those who have fallen into evil but have been redeemed from it. I believe this witness will be one of the vocations of the redeemed, a mission that will forever barricade the universe against a repetition of the horrors of sin.

      Experience counts for a lot. Who can know the dizzying heights of love better than one who has broken away from love and fallen into the horrifying abyss of evil, feeling the full force of the separation from love that sin causes.

      This horrific experiment in rebellion showcases God’s character in a way that nothing else can, could, or ever will.

    • Brent King says:

      I think you hit on something here. To my understanding, one of the most powerful shields against evil ever rising up again (in addition to the wounds in Jesus’ body) is the witness of those who have fallen into evil but have been redeemed from it. I believe this witness will be one of the vocations of the redeemed, a mission that will forever barricade the universe against a repetition of the horrors of sin.

      Experience counts for a lot. Who can know the dizzying heights of love better than one who has broken away from love and fallen into the horrifying abyss of evil, feeling the full force of the separation from love that sin causes.

      This horrific experiment in rebellion showcases God’s character in a way that nothing else can, could, or ever will.

    • I don’t think this works as a general argument, mostly because it would mean that those who are really well versed in the good would be equally wise about evil. I generally don’t find that to be the case, to the point where the most good tend to be the most naive about it.

      The good can often be naive in dealing with people worse than themselves. Jesus Himself, in the parable of the shrewd manager, said as much: “For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light.”

      But shrewdness is not exactly the same as wisdom. There is a difference between being shrewd about dealing with evil people and being wise about evil itself. At least the good, however naive, know what evil is.

  3. Brent King says:

    Great post Shannon. I always love your insights. They always stimulate my thought…

    I do agree that we should focus on the light, but still, a story must describe the darkness of the cave or there is no context. It’s the nature of our stories. For instance, if I take away all of the horrific things they did to Jesus, I haven’t told the story. The story of God’s light must be contrasted against a description of the depths of evil’s darkness.

    Gene Veith says that in good stories, “children are taught the attractiveness of virtue and the repulsiveness of evil not so much by abstract precept – and certainly not by school’s ‘values clarification exercises’ – but by rooting for virtuous heroes and being inspired by a good story to emulate their behavior…imaginative wrestling with conflicts is exactly how stories teach morality and build character.”

    In a story then, the horrific elements must be described or no one knows exactly what virtue is wrestling against. The deeper the darkness, the more power and beauty a story of light will have. The blazing center of the glory of God is the cross of Christ’s suffering…

    The more I think about this, the less black and white it seems… 

    • Thanks, Brent.

      I do agree that we should focus on the light, but still, a story must describe the darkness of the cave or there is no context. It’s the nature of our stories. For instance, if I take away all of the horrific things they did to Jesus, I haven’t told the story. The story of God’s light must be contrasted against a description of the depths of evil’s darkness.

      Probably the only bone of contention between the sides of the horror debate is how far we can, or ought, to go into the darkness. Conflict makes stories, and bad people and bad things make conflict. You can’t really avoid some degree of darkness, and no Christian wants to avoid the light, either.

  4. I am really enjoying this continuing discussion on horror, because the arguments for, against, and in the middle hit on some points that those adamantly opposed to or adamantly in favor of horror often miss.

    What I’ve seen in the horror that seems to best emulate a Christian worldview (whether or not the author intended to be Christian), is that good horror does not sensational horror to grab the reader’s attention, but either represents the darkness as the powerful thing that it is, or recognizes righteousness as the consuming fire that it is.

    For example, That Hideous Strength by C. S. Lewis seriously creeps me out. Prophetic nightmares, technology and demonology animating a decapitated head, ancient curses fulfilled in the modern day… It is seriously freaky, folks. It recognizes the power of That Hideous Strength–the power of the devil, and it shows what happens to people when they crave that power. But, at the end, the power does not conquer. The climax is presented as though God laughs at the devices of men, and the whole Tower of Babel crumbles.

    The second example, of the consuming fire of righteousness, is something which I presented in my book REFLECTIONS. The horror is not external, but internal. We are, ourselves, our worst horror, and we prefer that familiar horror to the “clean” horror of submitting our entire being to the One who demands all or nothing. It’s a fear of our own darkness, set against a fear of the light. I think that sort of story can shock a reader into honesty about his spiritual state.

    I’m not a fan of wallowing in darkness, or just flinging around ghoulishness for some cheap goosebumps. Shannon, I like your point that

    “The light will give definition to the darkness.”

    Horror for horror’s sake is useless, but horror for the sake of better illuminating some truth, horror (in some weird way) used as light… I see real value in that.

  5. HG Ferguson says:

    Light v. darkness is not either/or in the Scriptures.  Too often arguments against THAT (what opponents of horror really think of it) are based on an emotional appeal that sounds good — we need to look at the light — but such appeals don’t tell the rest of the story and certainly don’t align with Scripture.  Read Mark 5:1-20.  This is God’s own horror story in His Gospel and the justification for writing in this genre IF the following things are kept.  The story begins in darkness, the place of death, the tombs.  What Satan loves.  The antagonists are demons, thousands of them, controlling and indwelling a man to such an extent the imago Dei is virtually gone.  We have an atmosphere of utter fear and a demonstration of the Devil’s hand — the crying aloud, the smashing of the chains, the terror this man brought to the nearby community.  This is horror.  This is absolute horror.  This is from the pen of John Mark, and ultimately from the Pen of its real Author.  Then the story turns.  Jesus appears, and the demons make absolute obeisance before Him and beg Him not to bring judgment on them.  Then we have that creepy-weird flowing back and forth between singular and plural, “My name is Legion, for we are many” — an exercise in subtlety that would do HP Lovecraft proud.  And finally we have the absolute, complete and total victory of the Lord Jesus Christ over the demons, crushing the Devil’s hand and restoring this man to his right mind and his acceptance of the Lord Jesus.  This is what Tolkien meant by the story’s “turn,” which brings the eucatastrophe, the joy of Jesus the Son of God triumphing over the darkness and destroying it, breaking its power.  Make no mistake.  Mark 5:1-20 is the paradigm for yes, Christian horror, and if you have an issue with it, take it up with Jesus.  He’s the One Who wrote it.  And He wrote it as He wished: horror.  A horror swallowed up in His Power and defeated.  This is how God intends Christian horror to be.  Those of us who write it need make no apology, for we rest on what we find not in our own human speculations but on what God says to us in His Holy Word.  The way He wrote it.

  6. Julie D says:

    It’s just odd to me how many of these articles come down against horror.  If speculative fiction of the sci/fi fantasy is …like, horror is the redheaded stepchild in the less-reputable side of the family

  7. Mike Duran says:

    “I can never track the intellectual leap between We need to face evil and Let’s break out the horror novels! Why must the first lead to the second?”

    Shannon, the argument for Christians writing and reading horror has not occurred in a vacuum. Mostly, it is a reaction to an industry of over-sanitized, “safe,” “inspirational,” “family-friendly” fare. The leap isn’t so much TO horror as it is AWAY from fiction that avoids realism and darkness. Yes, “The light will give definition to the darkness.” But stories without darkness just aren’t real.

    • Heather says:

      I don’t think Shannon ever said that stories shouldn’t have any darkness nor do I believe she ever implied it.

    • Heather says:

      I don’t think Shannon ever said that no stories shouldn’t have any darkness nor do I believe she implied it.

      Pro-horror people tend to argue like this: “We need to face evil. That’s why horror novels are good!” And I’m like, “Um, okay. If that’s how you want to face it …”

      And then turn around and say that anti-horror people are afraid of facing evil or even reading about just because they don’t want to read gruesome plots with gruesome details.

      And, honestly, to understand evil do we really need to read a gruesome scene in GREAT detail?

      Yes, you can tell me what happened, no matter what it is. You can give me some details of what horrendous thing occurred. But don’t give me so much detail that I throw up.

      • Mike Duran says:

        Heather, if you agree that stories SHOULD have darkness when necessary, all we’re at odds about is degrees. I’m suggesting that much of the argument FOR Christians writing and reading horror is a reaction against sanitized Christian fiction.

        • Heather says:

          I guess that’s true. To me, reading and writing horror is an extreme reaction to sanitized fiction. A balance, like in most things, needs to be made. I’m not exactly certain what you mean by “sanitized” — like clean or something? — but in my own personal experience, I haven’t read that. The heroes/or heroines are always fighting evil. Even great ones. In fantasy, sci-fi and contemporary.

          Side note, I think you can be clean and have darkness at the same time.

          Anyway, that’s just my opinion. Not a very popular one, but I’ll live. Thanks for your input! I do enjoy discussions, however brief. 🙂

          P.S. Sorry about that partial repeat comment. Had trouble. 🙂

  8. Hi,

    Great discussion! If you’re interested, I’m a church minister from the UK who writes a monthly horror column in the print magazine The Fortean Times. I also host a podcast called http://www.theflicksthatchurchforgot.com which explores where horror and faith intersect.

    Hope you find it interesting.

     

    Many thanks

     

    Peter

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