1. Wow. This was brutal.

    I looked up the books and (surprise! surprise!) it has many great reviews. I assumed it would. Because the thing is, this book is delivering the actual worldview of most evangelical church-goers in their middle-years. This series is really the result of that sub-culture being perverted, more than just the aberration of one bad writer who happens to have a degree in journalism (?!?!).

    What blew my mind the most was that this guy has a PhD in Ancient Church History and a Masters in Theology, and now works at Moody Bible Institute (according to his Amazon bio). He should know better.

    • notleia says:

      I wanted to posit that he got those advances degrees from a diploma mill, but it looks like he actually went to a real university and a real seminary. Tho it explains a bit about his female character to know he writes for the Gospel Coalition.

      • Many of the people writing for the Gospel Coalition would laugh at his portrayal of female characters. Meekness is not the same as inaction or an inability to get out of dangerous situations. It certainly doesn’t demand some sort of Savior-complex-endangered-woman-fetish to be written into a story. In addition, meekness is a quality of Godly men as well as Godly women, so when Christians talk about meekness in women as a positive trait, they don’t always intend to imply that men should not be meek. Anyways, from his review above, and in response to your comment below, it seems moralism saves the day, not Calvinism. I feel a little bad beating the guy up. The only thing that makes it difficult for me to keep feeling bad is the knowledge that the guy is clearly intelligent, so it’s hard for me to not believe he knew what he was doing. All of this just kind-of makes me scratch my head. Also, I don’t have the patience to read the book to get a more informed opinion.

        • People accidentally write certain ways based on skill level, maturity, etc. Even if someone was, say, good at writing articles, that doesn’t mean they are immediately going to be skilled with fiction and, in particular, how to portray characters and themes. There are circumstances that can make even a skilled fiction writer turn out poorly made stuff too. Tight deadlines, for example. Not saying that’s what happened here, but being a ‘smart guy’ doesn’t necessarily keep people from making annoying mistakes, especially writing ones.

          • Right, which is why I feel bad about beating him up. It’s too difficult to tell what was intentional and what wasn’t, and what the exact intent was. That’s why I generally shy away from being brutally critical of other writers–even if I hate what they wrote. But in this case, the guy portrayed theology and the human experience in a way that does not reflect reality, while his job is to portray spiritual reality to people in college…? Maybe I’m misunderstanding his job at the college, it just is hard for me to believe he didn’t do this intentionally. Idk, again, too hard to tell from a distance and without reading the actual books. So… I’m really not informed enough to critique the guy. But it all sounds very strange.

            • Yeah. I kind of try to make sure I discuss stories as if the author themselves could hear. Or to word criticisms the same way I would if I were saying them to the author’s face. That’s kinda hard sometimes, but thinking that way helps as far as not being too brutal. And everyone makes theological mistakes. Lots of them, in fact. Even if they’re teachers with an education. Maybe the education can even make things worse in some regards, if they’re being influenced more by teachers rather than studying to actually verify and question things. Education is great, but people rely on it too much sometimes.

              • …yes, but if you are a teacher and you get the very basics wrong in something like a published book, that’s different from the honest mistakes we all make.

              • Yeah. I guess it just looks to me like so many people are getting those basics wrong whether or not they’re teachers and whether or not it’s in books. Or the basics might be generally accurate but aren’t applied very well. So, I’m just not surprised.

                And maybe being a teacher with an education means that people are more likely to just take what he says or feel less able to criticize him, so maybe he wasn’t getting the feedback he needed.

          • notleia says:

            Very true that writing nonfic articles is very different from fic, but I think the maturity factor the Thing here.
            What do people like about apocalypse stories (ETA: or isekai stories)? It’s wish fulfillment, basically, that corrupt society dies in its own bile and now the seeds of a utopic society can flourish. And you can learn a lot about people on what their wish fulfillment looks like.
            Does their wish fulfillment look like That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime or like Mad Max? Log Horizon or (ugh) Sword Art Online?

            • Hm…yeah, there might be wish fulfillment involved here, but it’d be a mistake to assume that an apocalypse someone writes is automatically some form of wish fulfillment for them. Many people might like apocalypse stories because they see darker stories as more mature in some way. Or an explanation of what COULD make society go down hill. Or how destructive human nature could be if societal structure was removed. Basically an exploration of human nature or a way to vent about how bad people are.

              So even if maturity is a major factor, it might not be in the sense of wish fulfillment.

              • notleia says:

                At this point of market saturation, I doubt it. This guy doesn’t seem like a Cormac McCarthy, and these books don’t seem like The Road.

                Given what this Josh has told us, he spends waaaay more page-time on damsel rescuing than on the reasons why Calvinism Theoretically Saves Society. That smells like wish fulfillment. (And neckbeards and fedoras.)

                And honestly, it’s not really about wish fulfillment, more about how his wishes suck. And part of the sucking is the sheer repetition.

              • notleia says:

                Like, I am willing to accept one instance of cheesy damsel rescuing. But does he have something else to offer? Apparently not.

              • I have to agree with notleia on this one… Although I see what you mean Autumn, and you make good points, as well. I just think notleia’s closer to home in this instance.

  2. Travis Perry says:

    Ok. Sounds bad, clearly awful world-building, thanks for the warning.

    I do want to say though there is some justification for portraying paragons of virtue in stories. Not always of course but at times showing someone who is basically flawless allows an author to highlight what he or she thinks it means to be a moral person. So there’s a purpose for some stories in the portrayal of people intended to be flawless.

    But of course there’s much to be gained by stories that show people more realistically too. Including showing that sin really does corrupt every human being in one way or another.

    • notleia says:

      My initial reaction is “eww, boring,” but I’d like to unpack this idea a lil bit.
      We have a lot of different meanings mishmashed into the idea of what makes a “good” character. Does it mean they are dynamic or realistic or likeable or moral? At least one of those, but not necessarily all of those at the same time, right?

      Most moralizing (boring) stories seem to conflate “moral” with “follows the rules” and also that with “likeable.” And when we, the readers, are informed that this char does rightthink, that we are supposed to like them without any more work on their part.

      Though that’s still a different problem than when an author means us to find a behavior likeable or relatable when we, in fact, do not. Like a scene to make us think our hero is tough and authoritative, and we read them as douchey instead.

      • In a lot of ways it’s about not writing a Mary Sue. A major symptom of Mary Sues is that the plot sort of subconsciously props them or their ideals up in some way. Like, if they get bullied, it’s so they can check the box for ‘being an outsider’ or ‘being strong and standing up for themselves’ or even in a poorly veiled attempt to gain sympathy. There’s different levels of Mary Sue, of course. And some chars might not really be Mary Sues per say, but at least possess traits of.

        Irisviel from Fate Zero would probably be a kind and virtuous char done right. She’s not a powerful warrior and she IS in a more supportive role to her husband, but she’s her own person through and through. In one scene, for example, it indicates that she feels disconnected from her husband’s feelings and goals, but she chooses to support him because she loves him and sees his goal as the only way to keep their daughter from suffering the same death she herself will soon endure. Obviously not all virtuous chars need to be in supportive roles and whatnot, but she would have been an easy char to make shallow. But instead the writers gave her depth and believability.

      • Travis Perry says:

        LOTR is full of characters who face moral temptation–but also has some characters who show no sign at all of “moral complexity.” They are good, period (e.g. Samwise Gamgee) or evil, period (Sauron).

        The paragon characters are not inherently less interesting than the complex characters in my opinion. Or certainly are not boring, anyway.

    • Perfect characters are boring and unbelievable, though. That means the intended effect doesn’t reach the reader. It just falls flat. Thus, there are much better ways to show what it means to be a moral person.

      • Travis Perry says:

        Samwise Gamgee is essentially a perfect character, morally speaking. So are a number of other LOTR characters. Not every character in LOTR is like that of course, but the idea that a perfect character is inherently boring is based, I think, on you not really being fair about what a “perfect” character actually is.

        In fact, the very idea of epic fantasy good-versus-evil struggles requires as least some flattening of what is good and what is evil. Because while Game of Thrones style gray versus gray may be keenly interesting to some people, that isn’t what epic fantasy has been about, historically speaking. (I’m assuming you don’t hate all epic fantasy–but who knows, perhaps you do…)

        Likewise superhero stories–you may not be a Superman fan, but Superman was always a paragon of virtue (and isn’t the only superhero like that). And numerous super villains have been paragons of vice. Sure, you don’t want every character or every story to be like that, but some stories are that way for a purpose and function as such. At least for some readers!

        • Eh, I wouldn’t call Sam an essentially perfect character, so I think you’re right that our definition of “perfect” is different. Sam lacks intelligence, and has his own selfish desires. He also lacks mercy toward Gollum. I think that’s what makes him so compelling as a character–those flaws mixed with his general intent toward good.

          I find Superman super lame. Andddd pretty much the rest of the population does, too. Again, there’s just better ways to accomplish what you’re getting at. I’m not saying you don’t have a point. Just that there’s more powerful ways of delivering it to the reader.

  3. notleia says:

    This is basically a fanfic for the Protestant Reformation. It’s not really Christianity that saves the day, but Calvinism. Through boringness, I guess.

    • notleia says:

      Also I found out that one of my high school classmates has embarked on her 2nd marriage (to be fair, her starter marriage to her babydaddy was a BAD idea).

      I’m glad I achieved escape velocity from the South.

  4. Oh, yeah, I think I read the second book in this trilogy ages ago. Well, I started reading through it, but then started skimming before giving up.

    From some of the scant things I remember, one of the moral failures wasn’t instantaneous, at least. Like, the main girl char was tempted into inappropriate behavior by some of the more worldly people while she was separated from the main guy char? Kinda don’t remember all the circumstances, but they showed a sense of steps or escalation at least.

    And I vaguely remember them encountering a gay char too or something? Society ended up rejecting the gay guy and the main chars looked upon him more kindly than society did, and there was a moment where they realized that some people were turned off by the guy’s mannerisms, but the main chars didn’t mind the mannerisms…?

    I dunno. Looked like the author tried with some things but didn’t know how to portray things very well. A lot of the things stated in your review are true, unfortunately.

    One thing to point out is that if the world is based on the premise that the apocalypse happened and the world ‘forgot’ Christianity, Christianity would have probably left marks on the world still. So showing vestiges of that is fine (people being named things like Mark or Rebecca for example) But yeah, if the book states that people don’t know what crosses are and chars that literally use the word ‘cross’ in their group name look confused when crosses are mentioned…that’s taking it way too far.

  5. Mary Schlegel says:

    THANK! YOU! I was so enthralled by the premise of The Sword when I picked it up at the library, because it truly is genius (and that cover is simply gorgeous). But by halfway through the book I was in shocked denial, because surely no book that horrendously sappy and mortifyingly cringey could get published, could it? By the end I was thoroughly incensed, not only at the awful writing and gag-worthy portrayal of Christianity, but at the fact that such an awesome story concept had been wasted on such twaddle. Ana’s nonsensical transition from a fierce, self-sufficient woman who hunts tigers in her spare time at the beginning of the book, into a helpless flower being kidnapped incessantly was ridiculous. (So, she could kill a full-grown tiger single-handedly, but she couldn’t fight off one lecherous drunk guy?)
    The entire book really felt, to me as a reader, like the author’s attempt to tell “kids these days” what they need to hear so they don’t become evil, horrible sinners who paint their toenails black (something that was actually done by the high priestess of evil in the book). But it was so, so very badly done, all it’s going to accomplish is to showcase how out of touch the author is with reality. And, as this is marketed as a Christian book, that carries a high risk of sending the message that all Christians and the stories they write are as out of touch with reality as this one.
    I could literally rant for hours about these books, they’re that bad, but I’ll just end by saying that the one redeeming factor was laughing at my best friend’s running commentary that she texted me about it while one of her coworkers was listening to the audio version where she had to hear it too. Priceless!

  6. I can’t really disagree with much of what you said here, Josh. I was actually one of the few who read all three books and wrote far gentler reviews as they first came out, starting back in 2010. (Anyone interested can find them here: https://rebeccaluellamiller.wordpress.com/?s=Chiveis&submit=Search). As I looked over those again, I said as you did that the characters were flat (I called them “thin) and the repetitive action, predictable. I also thought there were theological problems, and that surprised me most because the author was (is?) a professor of theology. I now assume that those issues are more a result of his weaknesses as a novelist. He simply didn’t know how to develop characters. I thought the premise had lots of potential, but the actuality fell flat.

    It made me upset with Christian publishers who would choose to publish books like these and then declare that they couldn’t sell fantasy. Had it not crossed their minds that they couldn’t sell BAD storytelling, no matter what genre? That they could decide to publish these books over others is head-scratching.

    Becky

What do you think?