1. Mike Duran says:

    Kat, I believe Scripture affirms that “two opposing ideas can be, and are quite often, true simultaneously.” Like Christ being both fully Man and fully God, like God existing both within Time and outside time, and like destiny being both fixed and fluid. However, this is also, I believe, where Christian fiction stumbles. When / If we place too strict of a doctrinal grid over our stories, we expect BOTH ideas to be neatly framed and explained, and disappointed if they don’t. Which is why Christian fiction so often demands clean resolutions and little ambiguity. We simply cannot tolerate too much paradox.

    P.S,, don’t feel obligated to respond to this. 😉
     

    • Hah–I gonna reply just ’cause ya told me not to :P.

      You say “we”–and yet I wonder, knowing you, Mike, if you’re really including yourself in that term?

      And why, as Christians, should we not be able to handle paradox? God Himself is a paradox. 

      This reminds me of something David Gerrold said when he spoke at a sf/f/h convention I attended a couple years ago. He said that Christians shouldn’t write sci-fi because it goes against sci-fi’s nature, which is to question. He said Christianity claims to give all the answers and therefore Christian thinking is to not question, as though that’s the antithesis of faith.

      But I see it the other way–Christianity is about there being *more* than what is seen, and atheism is about saying this is all there is. Therefore, Christian fiction should be less packaged, and should make us think beyond, make us see that there is no way our little human minds can wrap around the complexity that is God and the universe He created.

      • Kirsty says:

        He said Christianity claims to give all the answers and therefore Christian thinking is to not question, as though that’s the antithesis of faith.

        I remember hearing an excellent explanation of why questioning is not the opposite of faith: A small child is always asking ‘why?’, because they believe that the grown-ups know the answers. So it is with us: we are the children; God is the grown-up.

  2. Bainespal says:

    That’s insightful.  I wish I understood the difference between message and theme better myself.

    For a story containing multiple complicated themes and messages, I highly recommend “Tears of the Cat” by Jarkko Pylvas from Issue 12 of The Cross and the Cosmos.  I reviewed a pre-release version yesterday.  Everyone will get to read the story sometime around July 1st.  I think you should all keep an eye out for it.

    Here’s a link to my review, posted on the Anomaly:
    http://wherethemapends.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=spacebar&action=display&thread=2230  

  3. Galadriel says:

    Hmmm. I must admit, I don’t consider this often, but one trait that annoys me immensely in writing classes is absolute rules. My theory of writing is 
    “There are three rules to writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.”

    “A writer needs three things, experience, observation, and imagination, any two of which, at times any one of which, can supply the lack of the others”

     William Faulkne

     
    Of course, that’s about the craft itself, not the stories, but I think it still holds true. 

  4. Paul, it’s been a foggy concept for me, too. But the class I just took really helped clear it up some. I also find it WAY easier to figure this stuff out in someone else’s work :).

    Galadriel, thanks for sharing the quote! 

  5. C.L. Dyck says:

    Kat,
    Thanks for the mention, m’dear.

    Christianity is about there being *more* than what is seen, and atheism is about saying this is all there is.

    What’s interesting is how many atheist sci-fi works invoke mystery and a feel of transcendence, in spite of their worldview. I remember being awed by Asimov’s worldbuilding and the sheer scope of his universe. It seems to be a mark of humanity that we can’t escape the more-than-what’s-seen, no matter how much we say we’d like to.

    Paul,
     I wouldn’t worry. You have an instinct for theme that’s better than any technical description.
    Interestingly, a recent WD article on common mistakes cited overdone theme as a recurrent no-no. It’s one area where I think it’s better to just write than to think about it a lot. Perhaps being too intentional about it is what gives rise to the problem Kat points out with message getting in the way.
     
    Galadriel,
    Absolute rules are something I can’t stand in writing classes either. 🙂
    ~Cat

  6. Good post, even if lots of it goes over my head! But then, isn’t that kind of the point of theme? It gets to you without you knowing it. And I guess that’s the trouble with fiction that makes its messages too obvious. In doing so, it robs its own theme of most of its subconscious power.

    Cat, I believe Bainespal is different to Paul Baines. Confused the heck out of me at first, too! But when Bainespal posted a review of Paul on the Anomaly, I became fairly certain they’re not the same person. 

  7. Thanks for using Winter as an example! Honestly, and you know this about me already, I write with theme and message as my focus where some people focus on character or plot first. I know it’s a little gray, but honestly that’s my philosophy.

  8. You’re welcome, Keven! And while you may always have your theme in mind while writing, your story is pretty plot-driven–which is good, because then the theme doesn’t override the story.

  9. Thanks so much for your provocative and in-depth thoughts, Kat. I hope we can host your work on Speculative Faith again. Only when we keep evaluating such topics as these from the perspective of readers first (not as writers first!), will we be able to move toward spreading the love of God-glorifying speculative stories.

    Don’t get me wrong. I see nothing wrong with Christian books having messages, even strong ones. The problem is when a book wraps the entire story around that single message.

    One can make logical or rightfully pragmatic arguments against this (as Mike and others have done). Yet I feel the best method of opposing shallow themes like that is to appeal to Scripture itself. Does the Bible have a single message? In one way, it does — the Hero, God, defeats the villains / saves the victims, us, in a fantastic story-world. Yet is that a “simple” theme? Not at all. It informs and inspires and spins off so many other truths and beauties and wonders. The Story contains other subplots and themes.

    The book of Ecclesiastes alone proves that within the context of the Epic Story of Scripture — as any good story by a Christian author would be — creators are free, and even encouraged by God, to “flesh out” other beliefs and show consequences.

    Moreover, not everything is neatly tied up, not because God sets an example of not guaranteeing the victory, but because He has. It is not because God is uncertain in His Story, but because He is certain, that His people have freedom to express some uncertainty and take risks, both in their real lives and in their storytelling.

    • Thanks, Stephen, for letting me guest post! And agreed–the Bible is a great example of complexity. It is unified, but it is anything but one-dimensional.

      Also agreed that analyzing things from the reader’s perspective is so important.  

      Love this statement, btw: “It is not because God is uncertain in His Story, but because He is certain, that His people have freedom to express some uncertainty and take risks, both in their real lives and in their storytelling.”

    • See, I’m not so sure we’re using “theme” in the way it’s commonly used. What you’ve given about the Bible, Stephen, is really it’s premise, I think. But I also think the Bible does have a central message that grows out of that main story line, something like The sovereign, transcendent Creator-King is also the redeemer and friend of those who trust in Him. This is the idea that pervades Scripture, I think.

      That’s what a theme does. It’s not one of many ideas running through a story without cohesion. Yet, I agree that there may be secondary themes, just as there are in Scripture. But they don’t contradict or detract from that one main point.

      Fiction, of course, being written by fallible humans, may have contradictory themes, though I don’t believe those would be particularly strong stories.

      The idea that theme and message are different seems to me to be similar to saying children and kids are different: it has more to do with context than it does with meaning.

      Becky

  10. Kat, thanks so much for putting into words something that I’ve had on my heart and am working into my storytelling. The world is multi-faceted. There are many things out there, and only because we have the Bible as “Truth” to give us a plumb line and the help of the Spirit of God to reveal it to us can we sort through it all.
     
    So I love the idea of presenting a more realistic story, one where several opposing ideas collide without one trouncing all the others with such finality that there’s no room for people to make their own decisions. I say, let the Holy Spirit lead them. Show it like it is: sometimes the wicked prosper. Sometimes the good guy fails. Sometimes the righteous fall down. Sometimes the bad guy does the right thing. Sometimes nobody is sure who won the battle, because everybody lost a loved one and everyone has wounds when all is said and done. But then you just take your pen and highlight a few things here and there in the story’s flow, just a little, just a hint — just enough that the Spirit can flip the switch and they can see for themselves that maybe the Way is the best way…
     
    Anyway, I love this. And thanks for the tip on the Winter story. I’m going to check it out!

  11. Thanks so much, Teddi. The term multi-faceted is perfect for what I’m talking about :).  And yes, it’s that gentle guiding that is a result of letting theme form the story rather than a one-sided message. 

    I appreciate the comments! 

  12. Great post. I’m going to have to wrestle a bit with the difference between message and theme. But I love the part about the opposite propositions being true in the same the story. 

    Another biblical thing like that: God’s sovereignty/man’s responsibility.

     

    • Very good example, Sally. Yes, there are plenty of biblical examples. It was actually somewhat of an epiphany for me not long ago to realize that the Bible is full of things that seem to contradict each other, but do not because both are true. God is not linear.

  13. Shawna says:

    By presenting two opposing sides of equal merit the reader, or viewer is challenged to think, and draw their own conclusions. I think that sometimes authors of Christian fiction are timid when it comes to this. What if the reader thinks about it, and then draws the wrong conclusions. Therefore, the author feels it’s their duty to say what those conclusions should be. In other words, preach.
    But honestly,  is someone’s belief system even their own if they are told what to think. Does this really even work? It wasn’t Christ’s approach. He presented scenarios to contemplate: “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” — talk about two opposing truths, at least in the Pharisee’s mind.
    I personally love stories that make me think. They’re the ones that stay with me and challenge me to grow.

     

     

    • Ooh, great examples, Shawna! And Christians aren’t the only ones “timid” about this. Think of all the atheist dogma being spouted in public schools–with demands that Christian worldview not be allowed. Why do atheists do that? They are afraid that if just the facts are presented, kids will choose Christianity. If classes include evolution as a theory and Creation as a theory, kids might have to actually decide for themselves, and atheists don’t want that–but if they truly trusted in their beliefs, then they would have no fear that those beliefs would be seen as inferior. We should be the same way–trust that Christianity will hold up in the face of opposition.

  14. Kat, thanks so much for putting into words something that I’ve had on my heart and am working into my storytelling. The world is multi-faceted. There are many things out there, and only because we have the Bible as “Truth” to give us a plumb line and the help of the Spirit of God to reveal it to us can we sort through it all.

What do you think?