1. Our creativity is likely a by product of our ability to think abstractly and therefore strategically. We can imagine all the possibilities (even the crazy, wild ones we use for fantasy stories) and that helps us come up with plans for survival. Atheists would probably use that to discount God, but I simply see it as part of the way things are, or proof that creativity IS useful.

    Interestingly enough, I’ve listened to a documentary or two that indicated one thing scientists look for when digging up campsites of prehistoric humans are signs of religion. Such signs indicate an ability to understand and ponder abstract thoughts. I think they even said that one reason they thought neanderthals were unintelligent was the initial lack of religious and burial items.

    • Travis Perry says:

      What I haven’t heard a good explanation for is why beauty matters as much to humans as it does–which indirectly relates to our imagination. Imagining things that help us survive is perfectly reasonable. But why do humans spend so much time thinking about (and longing for) beauty? Why do we desire such things, especially when they don’t help us survive?

      That God made us that way is a much more reasonable answer than anything based on the universe supposedly just doing its thing.

      • Some would say it has to do with our sense of what is admirable/healthy/safe. Like, when choosing a spouse, people are wired to pick someone with admirable abilities and/or good looks because that will ensure a safe family environment and healthy children. A person that is ‘ugly’ would be more likely to have a bad genetic condition or something(In theory. Obviously this isn’t always the case, but it’s probably why the instinct exists). As for beauty in terms of landscapes and all that, maybe we’re more biased toward lands that are plentiful(green, lush, and full of resources) because that will help us survive. Our current perception of beauty could have grown out of that.

        In some ways, I think our perception of beauty has progressed even further, because we can even admire things that COULD hurt us (deserts, predatory animals, etc). But even that aids us because it helps us come to terms with/be happy with things that would otherwise make us miserable and less interested in surviving. As far as our admiration for predators, that exists so we will take time to understand how to evade those predators better than we would have otherwise. Also, predators like lions have traits we admire and need (such as speed and strength)

        So…I think it’s both. God made us this way, but he made us this way for lots of reasons. God is practical, so he gave us traits that help us survive in ways we don’t even realize.

        • Travis Perry says:

          Admiring lush landscapes makes sense–but only admiring that sort of thing is not how humans actually are. We are as much (or nearly as much) impressed with lanscapes that have no survival value–glaciers, canyons, high mountains, etc.. We ooh at pictures of Pluto for cripes sake. And this isn’t just a modern cultural phenomenon thing. Artwork portraying the beauty of landscapes totally inhospitable to humans is ancient.

          Humans have to got to attend survival training. Our instincts are only occasionally correct on how to stay alive.

          Yes, a struggle for survival has shaped how humans act in many ways–but we have impulses towards beauty that I think are simply inexplicable by any of the attempts to pound-the-beauty-really-means-survival square peg into a round hole.

          • Eh, I think survival traits are tools, just like hammers. We need hammers for pounding in nails and whatnot, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t ever going to slip up and smash our fingers with them. And then, of course, survival traits are good for handling certain situations, but not others. A good hammer doesn’t make a good flyswatter, as my Dad likes to say.

            • notleia says:

              That is such a dad thing to say

            • Travis Perry says:

              Think about your analogy though–is it really true our love of beauty primarily helps us survive but we sometimes (or even often) misuse it?

              Or is it true that love of beauty is instinctual and has no clear connection to survival–and in fact in order to survive we have to stop thinking about the lovely landscape and instead deliberately direct our brains to where we’ll find food and water?

              People say beauty enhances survival because that’s doctrinal to Darwinism. It even makes a small amount of sense in mate selection. It makes no sense at all in describing other kinds of beauty, like landscapes and many other things…or else people would instinctively find Antarctica ugly–and we DON’T.

              • I don’t know about primarily, but it does to an extent. Or, at the very least, it’s something that CAN be useful for survival whether or not that’s what it was designed for. We have a lot of tools in our arsenal, but we can use them for pretty much whatever. Our legs are useful for helping us travel to find food or run from danger, but that doesn’t mean we won’t walk to the pantry to get another helping of extremely unhealthy donuts. Or accidentally walk toward something that’s dangerous.

                Our sense of disgust probably functions like beauty in some ways, in terms of shaping what we like and don’t like. We need to see things as disgusting sometimes because it helps us avoid germs, or harmful traits. So disgust repels us from bad things, and beauty is supposed to attract us to good things. Obviously that won’t always manifest in a perfect way, because even if we are born with disgust and beauty, we still go through a process that learns to associate certain things with disgust/beauty. And that process depends on how outside information interacts with our innate personality traits.

                There’s times when we have to stop thinking about food and water so we can find shelter from storms or predators (or so we can sleep). But then we have to turn that off so that we can meet other needs, like chores and foraging. But then there’s times when we should turn the daily responsibilities off and focus on beauty and fun and such because that gives us a chance to focus on finding a spouse, learning something new, or reducing stress. And that rest period is just as important as finding food, because it lets us recover and gives us a different context to invent solutions in.

                So, just because we have to shut something off to move on to the next survival thing doesn’t negate its use. Everything is best used in its own place and time.

                What is your concern for this, though? Are you worried about giving points to evolution, or moreso just invested in beauty being an intrinsic thing instead of a useful one?

What do you think?